tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7366909960546184927.post2341736211798103342..comments2023-06-11T02:19:27.429-07:00Comments on Academic Cog: Yecccch!Sisyphushttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09880634753539329199noreply@blogger.comBlogger12125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7366909960546184927.post-42656490118862161912010-10-21T04:07:08.452-07:002010-10-21T04:07:08.452-07:00Do you have any colleagues that have done this cou...Do you have any colleagues that have done this course before (or concurrently)? Because it might be worth having a chat and seeing whether this is normal for your students at your institution at this stage (because students tend to be predictable en masse), which might give you insight into whether this is typical or not, and allow you to think about how to respond (or you could see how they are responding/ responded as a guideline).Feminist Avatarhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03364456372396228106noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7366909960546184927.post-56269497206896724292010-10-20T13:13:13.979-07:002010-10-20T13:13:13.979-07:00I've found that taking the time in class to sh...I've found that taking the time in class to show a bad answer pays off. It puts the fear of you into them, and shows that you are working on helping them learn. I'm totally willing to sacrifice 'content' for time teaching them to write, read, etc.. But they have to work for that time. And the comments on being a 'bad teacher' evaporate in the face of evidence. Seriously -putting up an anonymous bad answer and explaining why it's bad, and how to construct a good one pays off.Bellehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10849272391043604637noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7366909960546184927.post-36370241853209817842010-10-20T11:00:00.916-07:002010-10-20T11:00:00.916-07:00Can't add anything new to the excellent lists ...Can't add anything new to the excellent lists of suggestions here. Just want to echo the importance of being a hard-ass professor with some softening (but only in terms of personality?) as the semester continues.<br /><br />I've found that while students like the "cool Professor" they can all "feel themselves around," I end up having to work harder to justify their not-so-cool grades.<br /><br />And, yeah, students definitely learn more if they have to work harder to get a B.<br /><br />--PPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16625377988852170518noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7366909960546184927.post-21347073592829651152010-10-20T09:32:59.720-07:002010-10-20T09:32:59.720-07:00I've said it before and I'll say it again:...I've said it before and I'll say it again: students learn more from Fs than they do from As. I really don't think that students are allowed to fail nearly enough. I think that your expectations have been reasonable, and if they aren't paying attention, that's their fault - not yours. The only sticky thing is that I'm sure you would like your evaluations to be good at the end of the semester. So if I were you, I'd do a midterm teaching evaluation where the students could vent about what went wrong. In the next test, you could either take or leave their suggestions, or at least keep in mind how they are learning/approaching the topic. <br /><br />I'd also suggest maybe offering a small bit of extra credit that is completely separate from the midterm. I usually would do this with my Shakespeare folks by having willing participants get together and read through a whole play on a Sunday afternoon, with everyone reading a few different parts. It's fun, not a huge time sink as far as grading, and the students seem to get a lot out of it. I'm not sure what this class is, but if you could have an event like this -- to read a play together (Shakespeare or not) or a longish short story or a short novel -- then that might give an opportunity for the slackers to step up. Other options would be for the students to do some sort of extra reading or writing. Not sure how much time you want to give it, though.Fie upon this quiet life!https://www.blogger.com/profile/12047096700049201873noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7366909960546184927.post-14544591755747364152010-10-20T07:42:21.924-07:002010-10-20T07:42:21.924-07:00Hmm, I like that with Crazy's suggestion, they...Hmm, I like that with Crazy's suggestion, they are doing the work, whereas with mine, I am doing the work, even if it is the small work of bumping up grades. The first way makes it a punishment for them doing something wrong, the second implies that I did something wrong. I may tool around with something like this.<br /><br />Of course, there is the message it's sending of "well if you don't try anything at all, we'll just give you more chances," I'm not too thrilled about.Sisyphushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09880634753539329199noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7366909960546184927.post-87224899133310759562010-10-20T02:35:25.841-07:002010-10-20T02:35:25.841-07:00I defer to all of your lit studies colleagues, who...I defer to all of your lit studies colleagues, who have clearly been around this block before. I merely write in support of the idea of being a scary, prof-from-hell mofo in the beginning: it weeds out a few people at the start who can't be bothered to take a real class, and it signals to the rest that they're going to get their asses handed to them until they catch onto the program. Some will always complain, of course, but they won't have a leg to stand on if you let them know at the start that you're a tough grader and they have to measure up. Starting out the semester being a gentle soul has never worked out well for me.Dr. Kosharyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07777054788430587906noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7366909960546184927.post-1216935588066221812010-10-19T22:08:32.210-07:002010-10-19T22:08:32.210-07:00I like Dr. Crazy's suggestion too. I was going...I like Dr. Crazy's suggestion too. I was going to suggest letting them redo the IDs in class, but her suggestion sounds really good.<br /><br />I also think a midterm eval conversation is in order. Write out a few questions you have for them about what the hell is going on, have them freewrite on them, and then talk about that in class and take up their freewrites. You can do this in 15 minutes.Tree of Knowledgehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14037710157338503215noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7366909960546184927.post-76396751018302265572010-10-19T19:42:47.623-07:002010-10-19T19:42:47.623-07:00I tend to give F's in place of zeros, whether ...I tend to give F's in place of zeros, whether the answer is blank or so crappy that it might as well be. My rationale is that the 4 point GPA scale doesn't go into negative numbers. I guess a better way would be to design the midterm on a 4.0 scale.<br /><br />As far as giving a make-up test, I like the emphasis reassignedtime puts on giving the students a chance to learn something, but I generally dislike the idea of "calling audibles" on something as significant as a midterm. Plus, it doesn't sound like you had unreasonable expectations for the students if you even covered the ID passages on the big screen.CThttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08780978870640296144noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7366909960546184927.post-8155655965358608292010-10-19T19:42:17.556-07:002010-10-19T19:42:17.556-07:00I wouldn't take more class time - I'd do i...I wouldn't take more class time - I'd do it as a take-home. I'd say they were free to use class notes and the book if they chose to do it over, and any plagiarism would be handled according to the policy. (And seriously: these kids got below a 30 on this test - if they plagiarize you will know it in like one second and I doubt they are very likely to make the effort anyway - they just won't bother to do the revision, since it wouldn't be mandatory. Also, the 25% bump isn't enough to actually make it worth it to plagiarize - the revision opportunity is really more an object lesson than anything, and the opportunity cost of plagiarizing is a lot more than the opportunity cost of just taking the grade that you already got.)<br /><br />Here's the thing; if you were to do something like what I described, it would be a *gift* to them - but it would be sort of a crappy gift that would require them to spend a ton of time and energy actually learning the material. The lazy ones will not take you up on it. The ones who will be likely to plagiarize won't take you up on it. The ones who were really blind-sided by the test - for whatever reason - will get something out of it.<br /><br />Again, though, I can see why you might not want to do such a thing. I've been in situations like yours where I've just let them take the grades they earned, and I've been in situations where I've done what I'm describing here (or something like it). There are benefits to both, and drawbacks to both. Now, I'd probably be more likely to do something like what I'm describing here, just because I'd rather deal with the extra grading than the extra hassle that comes with sticking to my guns (averaging out the time, they end up being about equal time sucks, just with the revision I get to feel like they might be learning, whereas with the hassle of complaints and whatever I just feel like I hate them). But really, a lot depends on context, so I'm not sure what I would do in your specific situation.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7366909960546184927.post-78468732580534514442010-10-19T19:34:56.481-07:002010-10-19T19:34:56.481-07:00I like Dr. Crazy's suggestion; I was thinking ...I like Dr. Crazy's suggestion; I was thinking something along the lines of dropping this grade for anyone who improved by X amount on the next quiz/test.<br /><br />I'd also take some time in class to talk about how it's going for them, probably.Bardiachttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11846065504793800266noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7366909960546184927.post-9317816335653837622010-10-19T18:53:52.651-07:002010-10-19T18:53:52.651-07:00Hmm, would you take up another class period for th...Hmm, would you take up another class period for that? We're on a forced march between here and t-giving, so I don't want to lose a day with that. <br /><br />And the big reason for doing in-class midterms (besides forcing them to read and reread stuff) is to do an end-run around plagiarism... how would you know people were doing their own work/not pulling crap of the internet if it was out of class?Sisyphushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09880634753539329199noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7366909960546184927.post-46101375037517991692010-10-19T18:47:53.667-07:002010-10-19T18:47:53.667-07:00In this case, given what you're describing in ...In this case, given what you're describing in terms of the commentary they wrote on their tests and in terms of the ultimate distribution of the grades, I don't think that I would just curve the class up. What I think I would do would be to give everyone the opportunity to re-do the test (hard deadline, no exceptions). For the revisions, I would, since the test would now be open-book open-note, expect perfect answers on every question. Crappy answers = the grade stays the same for the test. (Which gives you license to just read one or two answers and then to toss the test into the "stays the same" pile if they put in no effort.) If the students met that standard, they could then bump their grade on the test by 25% (which would mean that some with Fs would still have Fs, but it would really help out people in the high F and D range, should they choose to take that help, and it would help out the people in the C or B range if they decided that they were interested).<br /><br />Here's why I would go with an approach like the above: 1) it's fair to everyone in the course; 2) it will let you see who just doesn't care - because those students won't take the opportunity to revise - and who cares but just didn't get it; 3) it's not a free-bee like curving the whole class up would be - they are being punished for not studying and putting the effort in the first time around; 4) it has the potential to teach them something.<br /><br />The downside is that it's more work for you, and I'm not sure that you care enough about them for that. Also, I don't know if this sort of approach would be reasonable at your institution - it could just make a bad situation worse. Definitely run whatever you decide to do by your chair, though.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com